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Roadmap for CDF?

Posted 10 years ago
POSTED BY: Doug Kimzey
65 Replies
Posted 7 years ago

Are there plans to use cloud content rather than plugin with the "Interactive" button on wolframalpha.com?

POSTED BY: Brian Powers

We are transitioning away from plugin-based embedded CDFs towards cloud-based content. The new pointers to Open Code examples are one step in that direction:

http://blog.wolfram.com/2016/12/12/launching-wolframalpha-open-code/

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

CDF is here to stay, see my more detailed comments in response above.

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

Sounds like they're phasing out stand-alone CDFs.

Thanks for the update. Does the above mean that the CDF player itself will also be phased out? How will the public run all of the CDF's many of us have written over the years if they do not have Mathematica itself?

I do not see why CDF's themselves have to be phased out, just because the browser can not run them?

POSTED BY: Nasser M. Abbasi
Posted 9 years ago

My question to tech support was about how to set the overall magnification of CDF Player 10.3 using an init.m file. The answer that came back ended with the part I posted. Reading between the lines, I wouldn't be surprised if the stand-alone player was phased out in a few years in favor of cloud services.

POSTED BY: Paul Masson

I wouldn't be surprised if the stand-alone player was phased out in a few years in favor of cloud services.

That will be a huge mistake by WRI. So what will be next? Phase out Mathematica itself in favor of an on-line only subscription to using Mathematica on the cloud?

All this attraction and moving toward cloud services and cloud computing is really going in the wrong direction if you ask me.

But no body asks me, and WRI can do what ever it wants I suppose.

POSTED BY: Nasser M. Abbasi
Posted 9 years ago

Since this thread is about the future of CDFs, I thought I'd share what Wolfram Technical Support told me this week:

Just to let you know, web browsers are slowly moving away from the technology that supports our plugin. You may have noticed that it does not work on Chrome and Edge, and more browsers are to follow over the next year or so. We are migrating most of the functionality offered through the plugin over to our Wolfram Cloud products.

In short, as plugins are a dying technology, our development teams are moving away from updating it. You can read more about it here: http://support.wolfram.com/kb/20057

Sounds like they're phasing out stand-alone CDFs.

POSTED BY: Paul Masson

CDF is not being phased out. The stand-alone desktop player is an incredibly useful deployment channel, particularly for Enterprise Mathematica users. It's simply the case that browser plugins are on the way out, and so web embedded CDF content has to come from the cloud, i.e., hosted online from from Wolfram servers or from a private cloud installation. For this reason you see Cloud CDF deployment options in our various cloud platforms, and also the means to export CDF down to the desktop. Ultimately, embedding CDF content on the web becomes easier than ever through the cloud, as simple as embedding YouTube videos or sharing content in social media.

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

Pedro, if you have Enterprise CDF, you can already make some tests with webMathematica Amateur. I agree It's not the best solution for you, but you can easily integrate it with Excel, and get very fast response time if it's inside the company. In webMathematica user guide there is an example of how to do it. If you are using Windows, the installation is very simple.

One more point. Have you tried to use ArrayFormulas in your cloud test with Excel? If, for example, your x^2 is calculated over a column, an ArrayFormula will make the calculation for each cell just once, instead of 10k times, with just one call.

POSTED BY: Rodrigo Murta
POSTED BY: Pedro Fonseca

While not all available yet, this page on our Wolfram Technologies site maps out what we expect to achieve wrt to making the kernel available via other means:

http://www.wolfram.com/engine/

Another case of "stay tuned"...

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

@Kuzniarek

Two years have passed, and I wonder what are the current choices for my needs:

  • develop functions in the Wolfram Language;

  • call these functions from external programs (e.g. from .NET)

  • the end user will never program in Mathematica, and hence, having the full Mathematica installed is a cost overkill

  • cloud is not an option; computations have to remain local (I mean, to the machine), for multiple reasons (network accessibility, speed, etc.)

  • I have CDF Enterprise signing capabilities, but no Player Pro licenses

Has the "Engine" came out?

Can the current player technology / license restrictions handle this?

POSTED BY: Pedro Fonseca
Posted 7 years ago

It sounds like you simply need to point your application users to CDF Player. Your EnterpriseCDF files should work as you describe, without any need for Player Pro. CDF Player can be converted to Pro via user activation, if you would rather not do EnterpriseCDF.

As I've mentioned in other responses on this thread, desktop CDF Player is here to stay. The Wolfram Engine concept is still being worked through, but I can't say more about it.

POSTED BY: Updating Name

I don't understand your answer. Are you saying that I can use CDF signed by Enterprise, to compute and return results to external apps? Or are you saying that I can just substitute the full scope of the external apps by the CDF app itself? (by an external app, I mean any application not part of the WRI suit, like CAD software, spreadsheets, etc)

POSTED BY: Pedro Fonseca

Yes, I'm saying an EnterpriseCDF can use .NETLink, JLink, RLink, DatabaseLink, and otherwise Import/Export data while viewed/running in CDF Player on desktop.

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek
POSTED BY: Pedro Fonseca

OK. So this hasn't changed.

I really gave the cloud a try, but it is soooo sloooow for many calls, little computation scenarios. The test I did, in my application environment, was simply x^2, and it was probably half a second per call, which is not bad at all, considering that just an intercontinental ping takes at least 0.1 seconds, and then there's the get in line, etc. But not enough if we want to do 1000 calls of x^2, and there's no algorithmic way of knowing it in advance, so to ask for all computations in a single call. This 1000 computations take almost 10 minutes to complete, for something that locally takes 1/10 000th of the ping time itself.

So, I definitely have to go through a local computation, but the cost break point between programming it in a lower level environment, like .net, vs the cost of multiple full Mathematica licenses, doesn't compensate going the Mathematica way. I only which we could have an equivalent to WR competitors' MCR.

Thank you anyway for the prompt response.

POSTED BY: Pedro Fonseca
Posted 10 years ago

the cost break point between programming it in a lower level environment, like .net, vs the cost of multiple full Mathematica licenses, doesn't compensate going the Mathematica way

Pedro, have you considered Enterprise CDF? In my organization we develop tools for our internal use using a single Enterprise Mathematica then we distribute the tools internally via CDF without having to pay more for licenses. We only have to pay more for more developers not for more users.

POSTED BY: Gustavo Delfino

You cannot call the kernel from other applications, period. See:

http://www.wolfram.com/legal/agreements/wolfram-cdf-player.html

Prohibited use (e) means only CDF files are allowed to run the kernel, not connections from other applications.

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

I don't want to call it from Mathematica... but from other applications. I can call Mathematica itself, but it cost too much (one license per user...). So, can this new player be called from other applications? In player pro licensing? In player licensing but calling Mathematica Enterprise signed "functionality"? Never?

POSTED BY: Pedro Fonseca

If I have Mathematica Enterprise, can I connect to the kernel supplied by this new release of the Player?

I'm interesting on calling the kernel, through .NET, but without buying one Player pro license for each user, although I do have the Enterprise version of Mathematica.

POSTED BY: Pedro Fonseca

Not sure what you would want to accomplish by calling a CDF Player kernel from a coy of Mathematica (Enterprise or not). They share the same kernel.

Regardless, be aware our terms of use for CDF Player do not allow for other front ends to connect to the kernel. A CDF can exploit .NET, but we are not allowing a .NET application to run a kernel (without a master CDF file being involved).

With Enterprise Mathematica, you can export CDF files that can run .NET and other such links in CDF Player 10.0.2. Perhaps that point has not been clear?

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

575 mb ! This is a big jump from the previews ones:

8.0.4 -> 105

9.0.0 -> 169

9.0.1 -> 197

10.0.2 -> 575

Are there structural differences to the functionality? (I'm still downloading)

POSTED BY: Pedro Fonseca

This release allows for activation as Player Pro, instead of requiring a separate installation, which at the same time allows coverage of all the various linking technologies supported by EnterpriseCDF. The new footprint is surely reasonable in this era of multi-gigabyte thumb drives and speedy internet connectivity.

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

So ... does this mean that when someone browses onto a cdf,a version 10 plug in will now be auto downloaded from Wolfram?

POSTED BY: William Stewart

It means that anyone viewing a web embedded CDF without the plugin installed can be directed to our site to download the latest version. The degree to which this is automated depends on the level of web coding used to embed the CDF. We document a number of possibilities in the deployment details of the resources section on the CDF website:

http://www.wolfram.com/cdf/resources/deployment-details.html

Embedding a CDF via the cloud offers the most automated results (bypassing the need for the plugin), but there are some limitations on the types of controller elements available to Manipulate objects in the Wolfram Cloud at the moment.

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

but there are some limitations on the types of controller elements available to Manipulate objects in the Wolfram Cloud at the moment.

Is it possible to know when these limitations will go away, such that CDF on the cloud will work and supports all features as in the plugin or in the player? Last time I tried Manipulate in the cloud, many dynamics did not work. Will there be version 2 of the Cloud to look forward for?

POSTED BY: Nasser M. Abbasi

Of course note that there isn't yet a version 1 of the cloud. It is officially a Beta.

POSTED BY: David Reiss

Yes, cloud improvements are occurring steadily, stay tuned for something in the way of a "v2" announcement of a stronger support layer for Manipulate et al. Our forward-looking mission includes getting as much of Demonstrations converted to cloud as possible.

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek
Posted 10 years ago

I colleague just told me CDF Player 10.0.2 is available at http://www.wolfram.com/cdf-player/

My deployed tool is working fine! I'll finally be able to use associations and all the new v10 stuff.

Is there an announcement somewhere?

POSTED BY: Gustavo Delfino

Just posted the "official" community announcement:

http://community.wolfram.com/groups/-/m/t/436528

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

Where is the best place to look for documentation? I understand that one can interact to some extent from the host web page - is that correct? What can be done please and how? Thank-you.

POSTED BY: William Stewart

We're in-progress on some new docs and videos to expand what's on the CDF site:

http://www.wolfram.com/cdf/resources/

But we recently discussed the topic of pulling data from the host web page (among other new features) in this thread:

http://www.wolfram.com/cdf/resources/

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

I'm replying to your reply for my request for info on documentation. I don't think the links you put in are what you meant ...or at least the second link ...they both just go to resources.

POSTED BY: William Stewart

Sorry, meant we recently discussed the topic of pulling data from the host web page (among other new features) in this thread:

http://community.wolfram.com/groups/-/m/t/309578

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

So could you clarify ... when it arrives will it also be available as the plug in that loads into browsers - i.e. will it supersede the old plug in?

POSTED BY: William Stewart

Yes, just as Mathematica 10 does now. It's the same plug-in.

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek
POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

Could someone from Wolfram please give us some time scales and what is/will be available on the cdf players and plugins? The lack of times scales is seriously impacting our aspirations to use the product. Thanks.

POSTED BY: William Stewart
POSTED BY: Nasser M. Abbasi

We are still in the testing phase for CDF Player, so it looks like the release launch will take place at the start of the new year. We are however happy to expand our list of beta testers. so please contact support@wolfram.com if you are interested in becoming a tester, thanks!

POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek
POSTED BY: Andre Kuzniarek

Well, we still do not know how many weeks or months "very shortly" really is.

POSTED BY: Rolf Mertig
Posted 10 years ago

Thanks Rolf. This answers my question.

POSTED BY: Erik Mahieu

Okay - I downloaded the zip file and it seems to indicate a new version will arrive very shortly ....

POSTED BY: William Stewart

The player pro appears to currently cost £130. UK Therefore it will not be much use who just want to distribute concept illustrations in education. Please may we have a version 10 of the systems that were in place before?

Also: See David Keith's comments above (which I think are so sensible...)

POSTED BY: William Stewart

As I understood Andre Kuzniarek in his talk (http://library.wolfram.com/infocenter/Conferences/8977/) he mentioned that there still will be the free player, of course, but the player and the playerpro executables are the same, i.e.: if you buy playerpro you can change the free player to playerpro by password. that announcement was applauded by the audience.

POSTED BY: Rolf Mertig
Posted 10 years ago

It occurs frequently that I cannot send a CDF to a correspondent because I use version10. It is not always possible to revert to v9 I am e.g. in a discussion about 3D space curves and am using the new FrenetSerretSystem to prove my point. Unfortunately, I have to use a PDF to explain my point! It would be nice publicity for WRI if others could see all the new wonderful functions v10 has plenty of! I also can no longer upload demonstrations made in v10. In some cases, I convert the code to v9 but this becomes increasingly difficult and pointless. I am afraid (and hope to be wrong) that WRI will no longer support CDF nor the demonstrations site and replace both with one of their many new cloud products?

It would be helpful if somebody from WRI could clarify this.

POSTED BY: Erik Mahieu
POSTED BY: Rolf Mertig

I'd concur with the sentiments above.

4 months after the release of V10 and I am still having to build in V9 because there is no Player Pro (and no CDF).

It beggars belief.

POSTED BY: Mike Honeychurch

Ditto

POSTED BY: William Stewart

The free player will read a package file (it was Encoded) if it's in the Wolfram CDF Player installation. I tested that.

But WRI is off on the wrong foot again with an Enterprise CDF! There should be no such product! They should use the model of the Adobe Acrobat Reader. You need, say, Professional Acrobat to write PDF files and that's a few hundred dollars. And it doesn't have Adobe logos plastered all over the PDF documents. You should only need Mathematica to write the most general CDF documents. I bought the Professional version of Mathematica many years ago and have subscribed to Premier service for updates all these years at a pretty penny - certainly much more than Adobe Acrobat Professional costs. I am rather ticked off that one gets so little for it. It took two years and $900 to get the Version 10 update and I consider it so impaired that for the first time I went back to the previous version.

In technical publishing Mathematica and CDF should blow PDF documents out of the water, but they never will because of their convoluted and inconsiderate attitude toward customers. And also because a typical technical professional has to spend much more time solving gratuitous Mathematica problems then he does solving his technical problems.

David, Thanks for the candid posting. CDF seems to have a lot of potential and I was considering using it as a base for a technical information product but, between your post and the number of posts about problems with version 10, maybe it is too soon. Mathematica as a platform is a very ambitious project so maybe it's understandable that it will take a while to iron out the incompatibilities. I'm very curious to see what WRI does with version 10 of the CDF player and how long it takes them to come out with it.

POSTED BY: Carl Lemp

Totally agree. I've also put in a lot of work on the assumption that cdf would be properly supported in a timely manner. So I'm worried ...

POSTED BY: William Stewart

Any news on CDF to version 10?

Posted 10 years ago

I agree that there should be no "enterprise" product. The capability to produce useful distributable applications should be built into Mathematica.

I recommended this to Wolfram several years ago. I am sure I am not the only one. At that time I was using Mathematica to analyze defectivity for cause in a semiconductor process. The analyses were distributed throughout the engineering organization. I was having to spend time running these analyses on each new set of data.

I recommended that a future version have the capability of producing a distributable stand-alone application that could read data files, make computations, and deliver results. I pointed out that to assume this would reduce license sales would be naive. What would really happen in an engineering environment would be this: As soon as someone began distributing such useful applications, the engineers receiving them would want the capability of making their own. It would trigger an expansion of Mathematica use throughout the organization. Unfortunately, reserving this capability to a much more costly enterprise tool will probably defeat the purpose.

This is by no means the first time I have advocated WRI for better service to the engineering disciplines. And I see some hope now, especially in areas like control theory, where they seem to be trying. But that other tool -- in my opinion a much inferior tool -- has made such early inroads that it dominates the engineering market.

POSTED BY: David Keith

Free CDFs can't read external files--I assume that applies to user-installed packages. Enterprise CDFs can read external files, though they may need to be Encoded--this was certainly true for the previous Mathematica Player.

POSTED BY: David Reiss

If one looks in the Wolfram CDF Player installation one sees an AddOns/Applications folder. This is very nice because one can add one's own applications there with packages, stylesheets and an init.m file. This is extremely convenient because you can add your own code in package form to the CDF player. It is quite likely that sophisticated CDF documents would use self-generated packages. You could also include a folder of CDF files for an extended application, zip it all up and a non-Mathematica reader could just unzip it into the player.

It would be nice if the CDF player had a place to search for package applications that was outside the installation - something corresponding to $UserBaseDirectory with Mathematica proper. There is a MathematicaPlayer in my personal folders that seemed to have gotten installed at the same time as the free player but when I tried to move the added package there it didn't work. Does anybody know if something like that is supposed to work?

In any case, the free CDF player seems to be one of the more promising features for enhancing the value of Mathematica. I hope WRI will keep it and polish it and make it robust, simple and stable because nothing could be a better advertisement for Mathematica proper.

Can someone from WRI comment on the timing of the v10 update for the CDF Player? I have much CDF content and need to update it for the approaching Fall semester. If it will be more than a few weeks I will need to stay back on v9 for my Fall updates.

POSTED BY: Terrence Honan
Posted 10 years ago

I hope CDF is continued to be supported for v10. I am sending a lot of CDF export files from my notebooks to customers. I had to go back to v9 to enable them to open the CDF files in the free v9 player. When can we expect a CDF v10 player?

POSTED BY: Erik Mahieu

Someone from WRI should comment.... but generally I believe that the CDF player has to be updated to a new version to support the new functionalities of Mathematica 10. The CDF payer is, in effect, a restricted version of Mathematica. I do not know if a new update has been posted to the Wolfram website.

POSTED BY: David Reiss

Now that version 10 has been released and it includes new structures like DataSets and Associations, will a new version of CDF Viewer/Player be required to support the new functionality or does the CDFDeploy convert these to something the existing CDF Viewer/Player understands?

POSTED BY: Carl Lemp

David - Thank you very much! That's good news.

POSTED BY: Doug Kimzey

I think that CDF is here to stay for the foreseeable future. The current CDF player is at version 9.01. IN the current version of Mathematica the creation of CDFs has been changed. One creates a notebook and then uses Save As... to choose CDF as the saving form. Then one is working with a CDF. But more importantly are the two menu items in the file Menu which are CDFPreview and CDFExport. These replace the File|New items that you were looking for. And, in effect these item promote CDFs to a higher level of importance. The WolframCloud supports CDFs as well. And Mathematica 10 also has the same CDF menu items described above.

In addition to all of this there is the function family that supports CDFs: CDFDeploy and CDFInformation.

My conclusion is not to worry....

POSTED BY: David Reiss
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