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Quantum random walk in Wolfram Model

POSTED BY: Pavlo Bulanchuk
12 Replies

Just to point out that Jonathan's bulletin A Short Note on the Double-Slit Experiment and Other Quantum Interference Effects in the Wolfram Model is highly speculative and not everybody agrees with his approach. Here is another approach to quantum interference in the framework of the Wolfram Model.

Thank you for the second reference. It was helpful, but unfortunately it left me disappointed. The first two examples in the reference are just regular constructions of the double slit experiment in Lagrangian and Hamiltonian formalisms and have nothing to do with Wolfram model. The third example is a Wolfram model, but it is more "construction of two negatively interfering paths", rather than "a double slit experiment". Each transition in the model was constructed by hand, making it not scalable (and I am still not sure how exactly we assign phases after the Knuth–Bendix completion).

POSTED BY: Pavlo Bulanchuk

I am very curious about different path phases as well. The way it was presented is extremely confusing. Clearly, Gorard's model in the first part did not use any destructive interference to calculate weights of final states. Moreover, as you mention, if we apply Gorard's instructions for the phase to my example, phase difference between any two paths is π, which is logically impossible.

POSTED BY: Pavlo Bulanchuk

I think you could find some insight in this bulletin by Gorard. There, he analyzes a system quite similar to yours, namely the rule {X0->0X, 0X->X0} starting from a string like 00000X00000, which is essentially your random walk, but forced to move right or left each step. In the bulletin, to each state it is assigned a real number, that is proportional to the number of different paths that can lead to the state. In this way Gorard is able to show the effect of diffraction, so it doesn't seem that this kind of system can exhibit interference patterns (I think that when you refer to a quantum random walk, you mean that you would like to see an interference pattern emerge).

So how do we get interference? Gorard's answer is to start from a different initial condition: if you start with something like 000000X000X00000, with two Xs, you get a peculiar interference pattern.

In the second part of the paper Gorard explains how all this is connected with his paper on quantum mechanics. I couldn't understand many parts of it, but I'd like to discuss it with you.

In particular, I would like to quote the following, which I think could be helpful in understanding how to calculate the phase of the action along a path:

So how does a completion procedure achieve the destructive interference effects that are so crucial for reproducing the results of the double-slit experiment just shown? As I described in my quantum mechanics paper, the basic idea is to think of the phase difference between two paths in the multiway system as corresponding to the ratio of branchlike- to spacelike-separated events along those paths (or, strictly speaking, to twice the ArcTan of that ratio).

POSTED BY: Ruggero Valli
POSTED BY: Ruggero Valli

The reference is actually great. It clarifies my questions about the way one assigns weights and treats different nodes (the question was from the other thread, but I didn't get a clear answer there). From what I can see, the evolution of the system ("oX"->"Xo", "oX"->"Xo") is essentially a probabilistic cellular automaton, where each possible substitution is assigned the same probability (or weight). This immediately rises a number of concerns about Gorard's results and Wolfram model in general:

  1. The first concern is very specific. The substitution system ("oX"->"Xo", "oX"->"Xo") resembles classical random walk very much. The only difference from a classical random walk is that a state "oooXXooo" can bounce only into the state "ooXooXoo", while in the classical random walk it can also bounce into "oooXXooo". This is a minor difference, and it cannot create "waves" in the probability distribution of the position of the letter X. The wavy interference pattern, that Gorard gets, is the result of the string sorting algorithm, which sets the order in which the strings are presented. This point was discussed in detail by Matt Kelly in the comments to the bulletin. To be honest, I am puzzled by Gorard being seemingly unaware about the interpretation of the rules as a modified random walk, then not being surprised after obtaining interference in such system, and then not addressing the issue of the ambiguity of the sorting algorithm, which is the source of the interference pattern.

  2. My second concern is about Wolfram model in general. If my understanding is correct, and a Wolfram model can be interpreted as a probabilistic cellular automaton, it makes it very difficult to make anything resembling quantum fields. The reason is the following: probabilistic cellular automatons are observationally equivalent to deterministic automatons with hidden variables. It is problematic to reproduce quantum mechanics by a local theory of hidden variables due to Bell's theorem (there are some loopholes in the theorem, but no one managed to actually use them, so... may be the loopholes are just an illusion). This result is very concerning to the prospects of a Wolfram model being able to model the real world.

POSTED BY: Pavlo Bulanchuk

I will try to answer this concern:

My second concern is about Wolfram model in general. If my understanding is correct, and a Wolfram model can be interpreted as a probabilistic cellular automaton, it makes it very difficult to make anything resembling quantum fields. The reason is the following: probabilistic cellular automatons are observationally equivalent to deterministic automatons with hidden variables. It is problematic to reproduce quantum mechanics by a local theory of hidden variables due to Bell's theorem (there are some loopholes in the theorem, but no one managed actually to use them, so... may be the loopholes are just an illusion). This result is very concerning to the prospects of a Wolfram model being able to model the real world.

The Wolfram Model is 100% deterministic. According to the Wolfram Model, the randomness observed in nature, including the outcomes of quantum measurements, is not true randomness, but pseudorandomness. Concerning the "compatibility" of the Wolfram model with Bell theorem, here is the answer of Jonathan concerning this question. In my case, I prefer to explore the option of superdeterminism as it was developed by Gerard 't Hooft, e.g., in this preprint. I agree that the use of superdeterminism is not mainstream physics yet, but it is not excluded in principle.

POSTED BY: Pavlo Bulanchuk

I agree with José, Wolfram model is 100% deterministic (I don't get why you say that it behaves like a probabilistic cellular automaton). A deterministic theory could still satisfy Bell's inequalities in many ways for example by being nonlocal or superdeterministic. The Wolfram model is definitely superdeterministic, I am not sure if it is also nonlocal. Therefore it is in principle able to satisfy the Bell's inequalities. The real question is whether it actually does, because I have not yet seen a convincing proof of it, but I think that before a proof of Bell's inequalities, one would need a better understanding of the way quantum mechanics could be embedded in the model.

POSTED BY: Ruggero Valli
POSTED BY: Pavlo Bulanchuk

Thank you for the explanation, I now understand why you were talking about a probabilistic cellular automaton. You are absolutely right when you say that if all the paths are summed with the same phase the only thing you can obtain is diffusion and not quantum mechanics. However, I suspect that the random walk we were discussing is only a special case, where by incident or construction every path has the same phase.

The quote where Gorard mentions the ArcTan seems to imply that in general every path will have a different phase, therefore allowing quantum interference. It would be nice if someone could explain how to calculate in practice these phase difference with a real example.

POSTED BY: Ruggero Valli

I found this lecture by Gorard: https://youtu.be/NupBxcmAwYs?t=4211

At 1:10:10, he states that he counts the number of paths to calculate the amplitude: "And then the natural measure that we define on evolution graphs in terms of the path weights, just purely in terms of paths counting, then gives you a way of defining the magnitude for the amplitude, which is the elementary weighting of the elements in the superposition".

And then at 1:12:05 he reconfirms that he sums up the number of paths leading from one vertex to another.

There doesn't seem to be any indication that there may be cases when one would do anything different, like sum paths weighed by different complex phases.

POSTED BY: Pavlo Bulanchuk
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