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Can volume integrals give different results in different coordinate systems

Posted 9 years ago

I am numerically integrating a vector function over a volume, where the function and integral are either in cylindrical coordinates or spherical coordinates. A parametric evaluation produces a different distribution of values between the two integrals. How is this possible?

The likeliest explanation is that I have made an error in one or the other of the coordinate system, but I cannot find that error. Consequently, I am wondering if there is something about numerical integration that may be the issue, since I do get messages about convergence etc.

POSTED BY: Luther Nayhm
4 Replies
Posted 9 years ago

It depends on how you're handling it and precisely what you are doing. Quoting John M. Lee in *Introduction to Smooth Manifolds * he says: "There is no way to integrate real-valued functions in a coordinate independent way on a manifold." The proper way is to use differential forms. Then with a mapping between cylindrical and spherical space, say, you can pull-back the integrand from one space to the other. This involves exterior derivatives. Then if you also pay attention to the respective domains you should get invariant results.

POSTED BY: Luther Nayhm
Posted 9 years ago

I kind of follow your argument, but the implementation in this case is above my pay grade.

My reply to the previous response supplies more information. The weighting function is always real and has no poles and is well behaved. However, Mathematica often tells me that the convergence is too slow or that the integrand may be oscillating....so I used one or another of the methods in Mathematica to speed things up. I also play with the accuracy and precision setting. At the same settings, the results as described above differ between the two coordinate systems.

The integrals, at first blush, resemble elliptical integrals but are more complex. There are no analytical solutions, so the calculations must be made numerically.

POSTED BY: Luther Nayhm
Posted 9 years ago

What do you mean by a "distribution of values" for an integral? In each coordinate system there is a different expression for a volume element, which connects a volume element in the coordinate system to a Euclidean volume element. So the volume pieces being added up are not constant in value for a non-Cartesian coordinate system. But there total is, since the volume itself cannot depend on the coordinate system. Perhaps you could post code in a code block, or attach a notebook.

Edit: My statement above is I think incomplete. There is also the issue of translating the vector function from one coordinate system to the other. As pointed out below, this is a matter for differential geometry.

POSTED BY: David Keith
Posted 9 years ago

Well, I hate to say it, but it all depends.

What I have is a function that depends on the vector between volume elements within two volumes. I am integrating this function over both volumes. The volumes are spheres. I can define the function or the volumes in spherical or cylindrical coordinates. The function essentially "weights" the vector for each volume element pair.

When I set the function to unity, the two integrals produce the same volumes. When I allow the function to take on a value related to the length of the vector between volume elements, the value of this integral differs as the ratio of the sphere radii is varied. Hence, I get a range of values over the range of the radii ratio. When I switch from cylindrical to spherical coordinates, the value of the integral is not the same between the two coordinate systems for a given ratio. Hence, I get a type of scatter plot, but the scatter plot is different between the two coordinate systems.

POSTED BY: Luther Nayhm
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