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Calculate this limit with Wolfram|Alpha?

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POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz
17 Replies

What about this?

f = (y^2 Sin[x])/(x^2 + y^2);

Limit[Limit[f, x -> 0, Assumptions -> x \[Element] Reals], y -> 0,  Assumptions -> y \[Element] Reals]

Limit[Limit[f, y -> 0, Assumptions -> y \[Element] Reals], x -> 0,  Assumptions -> x \[Element] Reals]

Plot3D[f, {x, -1, 1}, {y, -1, 1}, AxesLabel -> {x, y, "f"}]

The "approach" from "in between" is contained in the answer of Sander

POSTED BY: Hans Dolhaine

The limit is 0 if you work on the real numbers, but what about the complex numbers? Try

Plot[Abs[(y^2 Sin[x])/(
   x^2 + y^2) /. {x -> t + t^3, y -> I t}], {t, -1, 1}]

I don't know if Wolfram|Alpha had this in mind, though.

POSTED BY: Gianluca Gorni

Yes. I already figured it out while trying yr example. But u right about using polar coordinates to calculate a limit (usually at (0,0)). I usually use it to show there is no limit - if we r left with expressions that depends on the angle. Ofcourse, if u try to show that there is a limit we need to asume that the angle is not a constatnt which makes it a linear path (on the radiuses), and therefore not enough to prove the existence of the limit. Obviously converting a 2 variable problem in to only one variable problem (when we "ignore" the angle) does not make much sense. Tnks for yr example, Shabat Shalom

POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz

Sorry, i got confused. That example was for a different purpose: it has a minimum at the origin along all straight lines, but not along parabolas. Try this:

Plot3D[(y/(x^2) )/(1 + (y/x^2)^2), {x, -1, 1}, {y, -1, 1}]

This has no limit at the origin, but

(y/(x^2) )/(1 + (y/x^2)^2) == (x^2 y)/(x^4 + y^2)

so that it has limit 0 along all radiuses. I am in a hurry, I hope I didn't make mistakes...

POSTED BY: Gianluca Gorni
POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz

It is not enough that the limit is independent of the angle. You also need that the limit is uniform in the angle. A classic couterexample was found by Peano:

(x^2 - y) (x^2 - y/3)

It has limit 0 along all radiuses, but not along parables.

POSTED BY: Gianluca Gorni
POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz
POSTED BY: Hans Dolhaine

Yes, me too, especially as many students use Alpha and they know next to nothing about analytic functions

POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz

When u r dealing with limits of multi variable function u need to simultaneously approach the point with all variables, which means Sqrt[(x-x0)^2+(y-y0)^2]->0, when u r using Limit[Limit[,x->0],y->0] u get a repeated limit which actually has nothing to do with the existance of the limit at the discussed point, for example check the function

f(x,y)=xSin[1/x] for (x,y) not equal to (0,0) and f(0,0)=0.

POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz

Yes, u r probably right about Alpha. tnks

POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz

At present it seems that Mathematica only makes limits in one variable. Wolfram|Alpha apparently can handle more general limits, perhaps assuming complex variables. Iterated limits or directional limits are not the same as a full two-variable limit. Wolfram|Alpha's answer is so vague that it may simply mean that it can't do it.

POSTED BY: Gianluca Gorni

Limit[Limit[......]] also works indeed. The assumptions are not even necessary actually.

From the plot it is quite clear that the value is not direction-dependent. I would be surprised that WolframAlpha by default would include complex numbers in the limit while Mathematica doesn't...

POSTED BY: Sander Huisman

With complex numbers it is not bounded by 1... but I think by default Mathematica (Wolfram Language) does the limits with Real numbers... I could be wrong though...

POSTED BY: Sander Huisman

Tnks. u r probably right. It was nice if Alpha would understand it "as is" and give the option of complex numbers. Most engineering students don't even know of this option.

POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz

This limit is very simple to calculate: (y^2 )/(x^2+y^2) is bounded by 1, and Sin x goes to 0. My students use Alpha to check their work and in this case Alpha got it wrong... ):

POSTED BY: Dvora Peretz
POSTED BY: Sander Huisman
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