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Factorial equations issues

A very simple equation: $x!=\frac{(7!)!}{7!}$

It's easy to find the solution:

x = 7! - 1 = 5039

I used Mathematica to solve this equation:

Solve[x! == (7!)!/7!, x]
Reduce[x! == (7!)!/7!, x]

No one of these functions gives the solution!

Can someone comment this strange?

35 Replies
Posted 9 years ago

Try this:

Solve[(7!)!/(7!) == x!, x, Integers]
POSTED BY: Louis Godwin

Could it possibly be periodic?

Plot[Log@Abs[Gamma[5039 + I y + 1] - (7!)!/7!], {y, -20, 20}, 
 PlotPoints -> 100]
POSTED BY: Gianluca Gorni

In the complex domain there seem to be other solutions near the integer solution 5039:

Reduce[Gamma[1 + x] == (7!)!/7! && Abs[5039 - x] <= 2, x] // N
POSTED BY: Gianluca Gorni
Posted 9 years ago

sure

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POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard
Posted 9 years ago

Dear Valeriu

Thank you for your time. well, I think ??¹ is Multivalued function without restriction of ?.

but I restrict ? to => x Real : x?c.

then:

  1. ? is injective
  2. ? is surjective
  3. ? is single-valued
  4. so: ??¹ is single-valued.

Please let me know what you think.

Attachments:
POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard
Posted 9 years ago
POSTED BY: Michael Helmle
Posted 9 years ago

I humbly thank you but how do the computer calculate integral or series to infinity?

are the calculation of mathematica using integral or taylor series approximate formulas?

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POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard
Posted 9 years ago

Thank you, too. if you know which mathematical formula is used to solve x!=5039! please tell me. Regards

Attachments:
POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard
Attachments:

Unfortunately, this is not a code! I obtained the same result by applying a plain English query: = inverse(gamma(x))

It's interesting that an appropriate query: =Inverse[Gamma[x]], gives other result without plotting the graph of $\Gamma^{-1}$ function.

I wanted to plot the graph of $\Gamma^{-1}$ function to show that the issue related to multi-value function remains in the case when $x\geq c \geq 0$.

What I highlighted in this discussion is that to construct a graph of a inverse function is very easy... We must only change the axis ("transpose" the graph), what I wanted to do. But to construct the inverse of a function is a difficult problem...

So, the problem you posed remains, but the situation is much more clear...

In[26]:= Solve[Gamma[x + 1]  == (7!)!/7! && Abs[x - 5039] <= 10, 
  x] // N

During evaluation of In[26]:= Solve::nint: Warning: Solve used numeric integration to show that the solution set found is complete. >>

Out[26]= {{x -> 5039.}, {x -> 5039. - 0.737025 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 0.737025 I}, {x -> 5039. - 1.47405 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 1.47405 I}, {x -> 5039. - 2.21108 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 2.21108 I}, {x -> 5039. - 2.9481 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 2.9481 I}, {x -> 5039. - 3.68513 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 3.68513 I}, {x -> 5039. - 4.42215 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 4.42215 I}, {x -> 5039. - 5.15918 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 5.15918 I}, {x -> 5039. - 5.8962 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 5.8962 I}, {x -> 5039. - 6.63323 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 6.63323 I}, {x -> 5039. - 7.37025 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 7.37025 I}, {x -> 5039. - 8.10728 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 8.10728 I}, {x -> 5039. - 8.8443 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 8.8443 I}, {x -> 5039. - 9.58133 I}, {x -> 
   5039. + 9.58133 I}}

Marvelous!

In[3]:= Reduce[Gamma[1 + x] == (7!)!/7! && Abs[5039 - x] <= 10, x] // N

During evaluation of In[3]:= Reduce::nint: Warning: Reduce used numeric integration to show that the solution set found is complete. >>

Out[3]= x == 5039. || x == 5039. - 0.737025 I || 
 x == 5039. + 0.737025 I || x == 5039. - 1.47405 I || 
 x == 5039. + 1.47405 I || x == 5039. - 2.21108 I || 
 x == 5039. + 2.21108 I || x == 5039. - 2.9481 I || 
 x == 5039. + 2.9481 I || x == 5039. - 3.68513 I || 
 x == 5039. + 3.68513 I || x == 5039. - 4.42215 I || 
 x == 5039. + 4.42215 I || x == 5039. - 5.15918 I || 
 x == 5039. + 5.15918 I || x == 5039. - 5.8962 I || 
 x == 5039. + 5.8962 I || x == 5039. - 6.63323 I || 
 x == 5039. + 6.63323 I || x == 5039. - 7.37025 I || 
 x == 5039. + 7.37025 I || x == 5039. - 8.10728 I || 
 x == 5039. + 8.10728 I || x == 5039. - 8.8443 I || 
 x == 5039. + 8.8443 I || x == 5039. - 9.58133 I || 
 x == 5039. + 9.58133 I

Dear Mohamad,

Did you use a Mathematica code to plot the graphs in the first comment? If so, can you expose that code?

Dear, Mohamad,

I can suggest you an answer to your question! Observe the graph of the function $\Gamma^{-1}$. It's enough to look at the picture you posted in the first comment of this discussion. The function $\Gamma^{-1}$ is a multi-valued (set-valued) function. So, the mathematical domain/area of such functions is larger than the traditional mono-valued calculus and as it seems you can't have a simple representation (formula) of the frunction $\Gamma^{-1}$ as you want.

Unfortunately, I don't now the answer and I don't want to make a supposition! Sorry, Mohamad!

Thank you, Michael! It works fine if we state that x is integer.

In[8]:= eq = x! == (7!)!/7!;
Solve[eq && x \[Element] Integers, x]
Solve[eq, x, Integers]
$Version

Out[9]= {{x -> 5039}}

Out[10]= {{x -> 5039}}

Out[11]= "10.4.1 for Microsoft Windows (64-bit) (April 11, 2016)"
Posted 9 years ago

please help me

Attachments:
POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard

It's my pleasure!

Posted 9 years ago

thanks a lot.

POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard

Sure Mathematica can calculate Improper Integrals!

Mathematica is a computer algebra system, i.e., it was, from its creation, designed by Stephen Wolfram to deal with symbolic calculus.

Mohamad, may be the answer to you questions is in Gamma[] function as an extension of the factorial function.

In[29]:= Solve[Gamma[x] == 24, x]

During evaluation of In[29]:= Solve::ifun: Inverse functions are being used by Solve, so some solutions may not be found; use Reduce for complete solution information. >>

Out[29]= {{x -> 5}}

In[34]:= Solve[Gamma[x] == 10, x]

During evaluation of In[34]:= Solve::ifun: Inverse functions are being used by Solve, so some solutions may not be found; use Reduce for complete solution information. >>

Out[34]= {{x -> 
   Root[{-10 + Gamma[#1] &, 4.39007765083314189217115670719}]}}

You are welcome!

Posted 9 years ago

could you please tell me exactly :

for x Real : x?1

  • x! = a => x = ?
POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard
Posted 9 years ago

thanks.

POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard
Posted 9 years ago

for x Real : x?1

a = x! => x = ?

POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard

Thank you, Louis!

For me is somewhat strange that if we do not specify that x is integer, then we do not obtain the result...

The Set of Reals doesn't contain the Set of Integers?

What is the principle that governs the execution of Solve function?

It's important to observe that Mathematica can treat such type of equation, e.g.,

Solve[x! == 7!/7, x]

It gives the correct solution x = 6.

As I understand the equation

x! == (7!)!/7!

may be reduced to equation

 x! == 5039!

by simplifications, and then it may give the correct result.

Why Mathematica doesn't make such transformations?

Posted 9 years ago

You're welcome. well, I think the Problem isn't simple. we only write: solve(x!=a) but the problem is: there is not an standard mathematical formula to inverse of factorial function, you know. for example when we write: x!=a=>x=? and when we use (=) , we only want exact solution of problem but which function can calculate inverse of factorial? none. so we can only use special functions for special conditions or approximate solutions.

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POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard

Dear Mohamad,

Thank you for your comments!

But my question is more deep... Mathematica is aimed for different users, including children. Can you imagine their reactions when such a powerful system as Mathematica can't solve a very simple problem?

What are the real issues which don't permit Mathematica to solve such problems?

Posted 9 years ago

Or this formula:

floor(3/4+e^(1+ProductLog(-(1+log((2 ?)/x^2))/(2 e))))

POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard
Posted 9 years ago

u can use this formula:

Attachments:
POSTED BY: Mohamad Fard
Posted 9 years ago
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