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Is there a function with no defined limit but a convergent integral?

Posted 9 years ago

I'm trying to figure out if there is a function which is defined on the interval [1,?) for which the limit of f(x) as x->? does not exist, and the definite integral from 1 to ? converges to a finite value. Does such a function exist? Thanks in advance!

POSTED BY: Cheyenne Vasseli
6 Replies

Here's another one over the reals. The idea is very similar to S M Blinder's approach - we have to deal with an integral that Mathematica does not appear to like.

Plot[Sign[Sin[Pi 2^x]], {x, 0, 10}, PlotPoints -> 5000]

This function oscillates faster and faster, and jumps from -1 to +1.

enter image description here

So it obviously does not converge. It turns out that Mathematica cannot directly integrate this to infinity. We can only get the first couple of steps:

Table[Integrate[Sign[Sin[Pi 2^x]], {x, 0, k}], {k, 1, 4}]

enter image description here

or

N[%]
{-1., -0.830075, -0.741434, -0.696551}

But it can determine the roots of the sin function.

Reduce[Sign[Sin[Pi 2^x]] == 0 && x \[Element] Reals, x]

enter image description here

Between the zeros the function is constant -1 or 1. Note that the zeros are between consecutive $\log(k)/\log(2)-\log(k+1)/\log(2)$ so we can calculate the Integral as the limit of the following sum:

Limit[Sum[(-1)^(k + 1) (Log[ k]/Log[2] - Log[1 + k]/Log[2]), {k, 1, j}], j -> Infinity]

which evaluates to

enter image description here

or -0.651496.

So, the integral is finite and the function does not converge. The example given by S M Blinder is easier, because Mathematica evaluates the integral, but I found this example also instructive, because we solve it without using direct integration. (At least if I haven't made a mistake somewhere.)

My feeling is that this is the right result. There is, however, this calculation:

Integrate[Sign[Sin[Pi 2^x]], {x, 0, k}, Assumptions -> {x \[Element] Reals && k \[Element] Reals}]

which evaluates to

enter image description here

and hence does not converge, i.e.

Limit[k/Sign[Sin[2^k \[Pi]]], k -> Infinity]

evaluates to

Interval[{-\[Infinity], \[Infinity]}]

So, I might have made a mistake after all. It is, however, weird that the Integral evaluates to something that is basically proportional to $k$. That does not appear to make sense. I must admit that the following baffles me a bit:

Evaluate[Integrate[Sign[Sin[Pi 2^x]], {x, 0, k}, Assumptions -> {x \[Element] Reals && k \[Element] Reals}]]
(*k/Sign[Sin[2^k \[Pi]]]*)

and

Table[Integrate[Sign[Sin[Pi 2^x]], {x, 0, k}], {k, 1, 4}]
(*{-1, -((2 (2 Log[2] - Log[3]))/Log[2]), (-11 Log[2] + 2 Log[5] + 
2 Log[7])/Log[2], -((2 (13 Log[2] - 2 Log[3] - Log[5] - Log[11] - Log[13]))/
Log[2])}*)

@Ilian Gachevski , @Vitaliy Kaurov , @Daniel Lichtblau : Am I using the assumptions wrong?

Cheers,

M

POSTED BY: Marco Thiel

Consider E^(I x^2). The limit x->Infinity doesn't exist because of the oscillation at infinite frequency. However:

In[22]:= Integrate[E^(I x^2), {x, 1, Infinity}]

Out[22]= (1/2 + I/ 2) Sqrt[\[Pi]/2] (1 - (1 - I) (FresnelC[Sqrt[2/\[Pi]]] + I FresnelS[Sqrt[2/\[Pi]]]))
POSTED BY: S M Blinder

Thanks for all the help everyone!

POSTED BY: Cheyenne Vasseli

I worked with Sign[Sin[Exp[x]]] for simplicity. Integrate fails here as it does in your example, without really letting the user know.

Plot[{Evaluate[Integrate[Sign[Sin[Exp[x]]], {x, 0, k}]], Sin[Exp[k]]/Abs[Sin[Exp[k]]]}, {k, 0, 4}]

plot 1

Mucking about by hand one can procure the actual integral. The partial sums in phase with Sin[Exp[x]] here take a couple of interesting forms. The one first incident at x = Log[ 2 Pi ] (after a full Sin cycle) happened to equate to OEIS A161737!

plot 2 and eqs

Limit[Log[2^(5 - 4 (1 + m)) m \[Pi] ((-2 + 2 (1 + m))!)^2 (m!)^-4], m -> \[Infinity]]
==
Log[2]
POSTED BY: David Gathercole

I guess that this behaviour is documented:

enter image description here

It is one of these branch cut problems, I guess. Mathematica defines indefinite integrals of piecewise function up to constants at the discontinuities. It would be nice if somebody new an easy way of "removing" the discontinuities in these antiderivatives to get a continuous antiderivative.

Cheers,

Marco

POSTED BY: Marco Thiel

Marco,

Your assumption use shouldn't do much damage, however it does appear that Integrate[] fails to utilise assumptions as well as the Simplify[] gold standard.

Pre integral assumption simplification can miss effects on the results of the subsequent integral, whilst post integral assumption simplification can incur performance cost as the core work is done in complex suitable logic, and then discarded.

(*  Making a clearer test function  *)
litmus = (3^k)^(1/k);
Simplify[litmus]
Simplify[litmus, Assumptions -> {k \[Element] Reals}]

result 1

(*  Seeing if Integrate leverages specified assumptions  *)
Integrate[litmus, {x, 0, 5}, Assumptions -> {k \[Element] Reals}]

result 2

(*  Pre and post integral assumption simplifications  *)
Integrate[Simplify[litmus, Assumptions -> {k \[Element] Reals}], {x, 0, 5}]
Simplify[Integrate[litmus, {x, 0, 5}], Assumptions -> {k \[Element] Reals}]

result 3

POSTED BY: David Gathercole
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