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About MxNet as Mathematica backend choice

Posted 4 years ago

I recently noticed that Mathematica uses MxNet as the backend for neural networks. It seems to have been integrated in 2015. The blog post listing the rationale is here.

MxNet seems to have not gained the momentum to become popular, you can see the trends from "papers with code". Lack of popularity means framework may be slow to develop.

For instance, this question about using neural networks to fit ODEs from Joshua Schrier. It requires underlying framework to support higher order gradients. There's an issue to add support in MxNET but progress has stalled. Meanwhile PyTorch/TensorFlow/JAX support this feature.

POSTED BY: Yaroslav Bulatov
15 Replies
Posted 1 year ago

No offense but I think that Wolfram should have released new NN backend with 14.0 already. Moving too slowly in this key field. And ExternalEvaluate support for Python and Julia etc. is about the same as crippling.

POSTED BY: Jack Hu

I agree with the original poster. Offering MXNet alternatives needs to be a very high priority. Perhaps doing so would help with the significant problem of Target->"GPU" that at least of version 13.3 did not work well on Macs when training neural nets.

POSTED BY: Seth Chandler

We are well aware of the MXNet situation and have been planning a backend switch. It is a very large project that's currently in its early research state, and at the moment we don't yet have a time estimate for its completion.

Posted 1 year ago

deleted

POSTED BY: Josh H

What machine learning framework (or frameworks) are of interest to you (as a possible complete replacement for MXNet)?

POSTED BY: Arnoud Buzing

Mathematica should be integrated with PyTorch instead of MxNet. It has by far the most community support.

The other candidates could be TensorFlow and Jax, but I would not recommend their integration in 2024. (I worked both on TensorFlow and PyTorch development teams)

POSTED BY: Yaroslav Bulatov

I personally find the JAX model compelling but I never seriously worked with it. I am courious: why you would not reccomend it's inclusion? Thanks!

POSTED BY: Yaroslav Bulatov
POSTED BY: Arnoud Buzing

Mathematica's flirting with Python and PyTorch, huh? I have to say, my past Python escapades felt like a wild goose chase through a maze of dependencies and deprecations. But hey, if Mathematica can tame that beast and keep the chaos at bay, I'm all for it! I'm so smitten with Mathematica that the thought of not having to play peek-a-boo with Python again fills me with glee. I hope this new project lets me cozy up even more in my Mathematica comfort zone – it’s like my favorite armchair that I never want to leave.

POSTED BY: James Linton
Posted 1 year ago

Just wanted to alert that as of mid 2023 Google is recommending Flax for new projects instead of Haiku

POSTED BY: Asim Ansari
POSTED BY: Yaroslav Bulatov
Posted 1 year ago

Regarding JAX, you may be aware of Aesara ( https://github.com/aesara-devs/aesara ).

POSTED BY: Asim Ansari
Posted 1 year ago

I recently found that the MXNET was retired as of Sep. 2023 and it is no longer actively developed as indicated from its website and Wikipedia. Mathematica uses MxNet as the backend for neural networks.

POSTED BY: Sangdon Lee
POSTED BY: Joshua Schrier
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